[148280] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] Explaining PK to grandma
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Phillip Hallam-Baker)
Tue Nov 26 14:58:27 2013
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <E6758FC9-BD91-428A-ADDC-292C011A3339@callas.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:52:26 -0500
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org>
Cc: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>,
Cryptography Mailing List <cryptography@metzdowd.com>,
David Mercer <radix42@gmail.com>
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> wrote:
>
> On Nov 26, 2013, at 5:08 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree here.
> >
> > How do you explain how the car works to gran? You don't because she
> never thought to ask. All she knows is that you stick liquid in one end and
> it burns to make the engine go. Gran probably thinks that it is some sort
> of steam engine in there.
> >
> > These explanations are tantamount to explaining to her how a carburetor
> works or the details of the differential.
>
> Agree totally. It has to be so simple as to be invisible, even though that
> is suboptimal. Yup, it would be better if Gran cared enough to understand.
> She doesn't. (And yes, I believe that Gran *could* understand, and what's
> missing is desire, not ability. Obviously, better metaphors are great, if
> she cared.)
>
> Also -- the way that you make the safety systems work in crypto for Gran
> is the same way you make the airbags work for Gran. They just do.
>
Unless they don't.
But that is OK, no really. What we are trying to do for gran and what we
are trying to do for a political dissident is completely different.
Different consequences, different risks.
It is OK for a solution we provide to Gran to sometimes fail.It is better
to give gran a solution that we can trust her to always use that might be
compromised with a lot of effort than something that could be more secure
but won't be because she will never use it.
Jon and I are working at opposite ends of the spectrum and that is OK.
What I learned from Tim B-L vs Ted Nelson is that Ted Nelson invented 120%
of the Web while Tim only invented 90%. But Tim is the guy who made the
difference because deciding to leave the parts out is what made the Web
possible. Tim's genius was to work out the right parts to leave out.
The sad part about Ted vs Tim is not that Tim worked out how to deploy
Ted's life's work, its the fact that Ted can never accept the fact or
understand what Tim did for his work.
Before Snowdonia hit I was working on a History of the Web. One of the
patterns that pops up a lot of times is the visionary versus the
pragmatist. RMS was the visionary behind GNU but it took Eric Raymond and a
lot of other people to create the Open Source movement and kick out the
parts of the ideology that were broken.
It comes up before as well. Everyone here likely knows that Edison did not
invent the light bulb. Even his improved light bulb was an exaggeration of
his contribution there. But Edison really did invent electric light because
he invented the first complete infrastructure that could deliver it to the
house. Lots of people had the idea of electricity into light but Edison
made it practical.
One challenge we face today is to make Phil Zimmerman's vision of 1991
practical. We can work on that while Phil and Jon continue to work on
pushing forward the frontiers.
This gets me to the key insight I came to about the Web, 1+1 = 6 billion
Tim plus Ted was more productive than either could have been alone. There
are different styles of thought and very often the reason that a problem
has been unsolved for too long is that it needs a different style of
thought. Ted is a very powerful, very charismatic speaker and he managed to
pull several hundred people into his style of thought. Before that Freud,
Yung, Marx and many others did the same sort of thing.
The Web changes that. It brings together all the styles of thought to work
on a problem whether the principals want that or no.
--
Website: http://hallambaker.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Jon Callas <span dir=3D"ltr"><=
<a href=3D"mailto:jon@callas.org" target=3D"_blank">jon@callas.org</a>><=
/span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im"><br>
On Nov 26, 2013, at 5:08 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <<a href=3D"mailto:hal=
lam@gmail.com">hallam@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree here.<br>
><br>
> How do you explain how the car works to gran? You don't because sh=
e never thought to ask. All she knows is that you stick liquid in one end a=
nd it burns to make the engine go. Gran probably thinks that it is some sor=
t of steam engine in there.<br>
><br>
> These explanations are tantamount to explaining to her how a carbureto=
r works or the details of the differential.<br>
<br>
</div>Agree totally. It has to be so simple as to be invisible, even though=
that is suboptimal. Yup, it would be better if Gran cared enough to unders=
tand. She doesn't. (And yes, I believe that Gran *could* understand, an=
d what's missing is desire, not ability. Obviously, better metaphors ar=
e great, if she cared.)<br>
<br>
Also -- the way that you make the safety systems work in crypto for Gran is=
the same way you make the airbags work for Gran. They just do.<br></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>Unless they don't.=A0</div><div><br></div><div=
>
But that is OK, no really. What we are trying to do for gran and what we ar=
e trying to do for a political dissident is completely different. Different=
consequences, different risks.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>It is OK for a =
solution we provide to Gran to sometimes fail.It is better to give gran a s=
olution that we can trust her to always use that might be compromised with =
a lot of effort than something that could be more secure but won't be b=
ecause she will never use it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Jon and I are working at opposite ends of the spectrum =
and that is OK.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">What I learned from T=
im B-L vs Ted Nelson is that Ted Nelson invented 120% of the Web while Tim =
only invented 90%. But Tim is the guy who made the difference because decid=
ing to leave the parts out is what made the Web possible. Tim's genius =
was to work out the right parts to leave out.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">The sad par=
t about Ted vs Tim is not that Tim worked out how to deploy Ted's life&=
#39;s work, its the fact that Ted can never accept the fact or understand w=
hat Tim did for his work.<br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Before Snowdonia hit I was working on a His=
tory of the Web. One of the patterns that pops up a lot of times is the vis=
ionary versus the pragmatist. RMS was the visionary behind GNU but it took =
Eric Raymond and a lot of other people to create the Open Source movement a=
nd kick out the parts of the ideology that were broken.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">It comes up=
before as well. Everyone here likely knows that Edison did not invent the =
light bulb. Even his improved light bulb was an exaggeration of his contrib=
ution there. But Edison really did invent electric light because he invente=
d the first complete infrastructure that could deliver it to the house. Lot=
s of people had the idea of electricity into light but Edison made it pract=
ical.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>O=
ne challenge we face today is to make Phil Zimmerman's vision of 1991 p=
ractical. We can work on that while Phil and Jon continue to work on pushin=
g forward the frontiers.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">This gets m=
e to the key insight I came to about the Web, 1+1 =3D 6 billion</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Tim plus Ted was =
more productive than either could have been alone. There are different styl=
es of thought and very often the reason that a problem has been unsolved fo=
r too long is that it needs a different style of thought. Ted is a very pow=
erful, very charismatic speaker and he managed to pull several hundred peop=
le into his style of thought. Before that Freud, Yung, Marx and many others=
did the same sort of thing.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">The Web cha=
nges that. It brings together all the styles of thought to work on a proble=
m whether the principals want that or no.<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-=
- <br>
Website: <a href=3D"http://hallambaker.com/">http://hallambaker.com/</a><br=
>
</div></div>
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