[15577] in APO-L
Re: stuff that has gotten off the original subject line
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (The Rogue Scholar)
Wed Nov 13 18:05:19 1996
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:06:23 -0600
Reply-To: The Rogue Scholar <macke@RICCI.WUSTL.EDU>
From: The Rogue Scholar <macke@RICCI.WUSTL.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list APO-L <APO-L@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199611132228.QAA17372@ricci.wustl.edu>
On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, John Grossi wrote:
> This is the best medium for people to practice there arguements. It is
> not a cross section of the fraternity, not by a long shot... the gross
> majority of the people out there are not into that computer thing
> (Baecker, Reading in Human Computer Interaction, p 132-133 -- so no
> one screams)
Is there a URL for that reference? ;) (just kidding! Put those tomatoes
away!)
> Oh agreed, which is what I was trying to get across, we are all alumni,
> it's not our decision... it's yours the Undergraduates... we work for you...
> not you for us.
Here I disagree somewhat. Some of us alumni are still active as graduate
students, and in that respect we still make up some of the "movers and
shakers" of the organization. To say it is not our decision is to shirk
our responsibility to APO, both nationally and locally. Those of us that
are still involved in APO, either as active brothers or as advisors or
even perhaps simply in the capacity of "alum" have a responsibility to
provide guidance and perspective, even if some are not in the position to
actively participate in the decision-making process. However, upon
taking up that responsibility, we also must take a mature attitude about
the issues, which includes more than simply personal feelings. It is our
responsibility to see the "big picture:" to understand more than our
local viewpoint, to understand where we came from, and hopefully to have
an idea of where we are headed in the future. The undergraduates (and
even active grad students) should be able to look upon the alumni as
valuable resources for viewing the big picture.
(Unfortunately, many of us on this discussion list are apparently not
taking that perspective, and are taking many of these issues personally)
That being said, I do agree with part of the previously-quoted statement,
though not in the original context. It is NOT our decision to make,
regardless of whether we are undergraduates or graduate students or
completely inactive alums or whatever. In my opinion, at the national
level we should not be making decisions which affect "Not-My-Chapter."
It is up to those chapters who are still all-male to review their status
and decide for themselves how to proceed. At nationals, we should be
deciding issues which potentially affect every chapter, including our
own.
I have more to say, but I will refrain from doing so because I recognize
that, no matter my feelings on the issue, odds are I will not change
anybody's position. So far, this discussion seems to be degrading into a
flame war. I would like to see it return to a more mature discussion,
which includes recognition of the fact that other people have different
viewpoints on this issue.
From the LISTSERV guidelines regarding list APO-L:
>6. Please do not "flame" (insult) individuals over APO-L or in private
> mail. Discussions will naturally bring disagreements, however,
> rebuttals should always be made in a rational, logical and mature
> manner in public or private.
YiLFS,
---Bob Macke
AXcoAPO alum,
Alpha Phi active
