[17590] in APO-L
Re: BSA discrimintation (WAS Addition to Alcohol Discussion)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Randy Finder)
Mon Nov 17 16:34:31 1997
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:31:01 -0400
Reply-To: Randy Finder <naraht@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU>
From: Randy Finder <naraht@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list APO-L <APO-L@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199711172017.PAA03437@beryllium.club.cc.cmu.edu>
On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Theodore W. Love wrote:
> <snip>
> >This is an issue I would like to contribute to. In my 4 years with APO
> >I've run across many people who blindly assume that APO follows
> >Scouting policy. This is most certainly not the case, and I'm very
> >glad that it isn't. APO does not discriminate on the basis of gender,
> >sexual orientation, or religion (all of which the BSA does). Having
> >been on the Scouting Relations committee at Nationals in 1994, I am
> >very aware that BSA doesn't want to be like APO and APO doesn't want
> >to be like BSA. We share a common heritage and set of ideals, the
> >Scout(tm) Oat and Law. What we choose to do with these ideals is up to
> >our own organization, not the interpretation of an "outside" entity.
> <snip>
>
> Being well versed with BSA policy, I challenge your statement above that
> claims that the BSA discriminates on the basis of gender, sexual
> orientation, or religion. I feel that I could disprove any of your
> misconceptions. If you take things out of prospective it may appear to be
> so, but it is not. Even what appears to be obvious discrimination against
> not allowing girls into the BSA has not once been overturned in the many
> many times it has gone to our legal system.
Any limitation on membership is by dictionary definition descrimination,
however there are a large number of organizations whose descrimination
when it comes to membership are intrinsic to what that organization is.
Mensa requires a certain IQ/test level and Daughters of the American
Revolution and Sons of the Confederacy require ancestors to have done
certain things. (Though admittedly a difference here is that these
organizations do not have their membership requirements affect who may be
employed by these organizations.)
Whether BSA's membership limitations are legal is something the courts
will decide (and are currently deciding), whether they are moral is VERY
unlikely to be decided here. (For those of you who wish to spend several
hours a day debating this, may I suggest the usenet newsgroup
rec.scouting.issues and bring your asbestos underwear. :)
> I feel that any organization, is a collective group of people that give
> up certain "RIGHTS" to benefit the group.
> I give up the "freedom" to murder by being a citizen of the United States of
> America. I give up the "right" to drink alcohol at dry fraternity events.
> Further more, I believe that any set of ideals is objective, and it is
> absolutely absurd to say that you can say the same thing (such as Scout Law
> or Oath) and mean something different! I believe that what you do with
> those ideals is neither up to an "outside" entity, nor our organization,
> rather it is up to each individual who repeats the Oath and Law accepting it
> and choosing to act accordingly.
Only 1 of the 3 membership requirements of BSA is really tied to the Oath
& Law: Belief in God.
Letting girls participate in the explorer program (or for that matter
women as various types of leaders over the years) hasn't required a change
in the SO&SL, so I don't think that's fully tied.
As for Homosexuality, BSA ties it to "Morally Straight" part of the
Oath and "Clean" in the Scout Law, but while BSA does try to dismiss
leaders with what they consider obvious Moral problems, most of the other
Moral reasons for dismissing don't have National Legal Funds. The "Clean"
argument, I haven't been able to look at quite the same way since a
scoutmaster I know said "Just about anything one gay can do to another, I
can do to my wife and BSA doesn't care."
YiLFS
Randy Finder
>
> LFS,
> Ted Love
> love26@potsdam.edu
>
> Order of the Arrow Section NE5A Region Chief
> Seaway Valley Unit Commissioner
> Alpha Phi Omega - Mu Omicron
>
--
Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega
