[1937] in Discussion of MIT-community interests
Re: [Mit-talk] [UA-SCATR] New Card initiative
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven M Kelch)
Mon Jul 3 14:12:37 2006
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:12:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Kelch <kelch@mit.edu>
To: Jacob Faber <faber@alum.mit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <e9cc53d60607031059s396c3747l48a0e36a49f3e8dd@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: reubano@alum.mit.edu, ua-scatr@mit.edu,
"Pius A. Uzamere II" <pius@alum.mit.edu>, mit-talk@mit.edu
Errors-To: mit-talk-bounces@mit.edu
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I think it's been on everyone's mind for a long time but no one has come=20
out and said it directly: MIT's management of food vendors and dining is=20
far more than subpar, and significant changes need to take place, which=20
may include the resignation or release of certain administrators.
I emailed the UA Dining Chairs to try to get some information regarding=20
W20 policy, though I will probably have to go to the source to get all the=
=20
info.
skelch
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Jacob Faber wrote:
> "Anyway, just for fun, try tying a mandatory Student meal plan
> proposal to a mandatory Staff meal plan proposal and watch the
> proponents struggle to explain the difference between the goose and
> the gander."
>
> This would be hilarious and I would love to see that (you can tie in
> grad students as well). There are some high level admins, who I will
> not name here, who would really struggle with the logical connection
> between these groups.
>
> What I meant by "ridiculous" was the fact that they have monopolies
> and still fail, which is just a baffling concept. What offends me is
> that if these vendors are failing to turn profit, they don't take any
> responsibility for their failure, blame it on the system, and demand
> changes in the system to get them out of the red. Subsidies can't be
> the only option. This strategy will just lead to complacent
> management and the same problem year after year: mediocre food (in
> quality and/or quantity) at unreasonable prices. An owner or manager
> of a business is responsible for analyzing how well the business is
> doing, and a large part of that is keeping in touch with their
> customers.
>
> "Is the MIT student body really big enough to support a competitive
> open market of food vendors on campus?"
>
> Yes. But is a dorm of a couple hundred big enough? Maybe not. Maybe
> MIT needs to rethink whether or not it is useful to have full dinner
> service in places like Baker.
>
> Jacob Faber '04 '06
> Former UA Something or Other
>
>
> On 7/3/06, Sean P. Robinson <spatrick@mit.edu> wrote:
>> I think Jacob hit the nail on the head, for the most part.
>>
>> Jacob Faber wrote:
>>> I am not surprised to hear that this is how the administration is
>>> rationalizing this potential plan. In reality, this plan is just a
>>> way to subsidize the ridiculous monopoly that is MIT campus dining, as
>>> were the plans that "were not meal plans" implemented in Baker,
>>> Simmons, and Next while I was at MIT. The intention was as obvious
>>> then as it is now.
>>
>> It's a fair bet the parents' thing is a feel-good excuse, not the real
>> reason behind this proposal.
>>
>> Although, the "ridiculous" part might be a little much. Is the MIT stude=
nt
>> body really big enough to support a competitive open market of food vend=
ors
>> on campus? With the exception of the first floor of the student center, =
are
>> there any places on campus where you'd really want a thriving, successfu=
l
>> restaurant (meaning open to the public, doing business in a way to attra=
ct
>> in the public)? While that might be pretty cool in principle, it would
>> inevitably result in a practical nuisance to any living/research/admin g=
roup
>> in the area.
>>
>> If MIT Dining were really serious about having a successful quality dini=
ng
>> program, they wouldn't be focusing on manipulating the social structures=
of
>> the 4000 undergrads, but rather the 10,000 staff members. Throw in the 6=
000
>> grad students for fun, too. That's a small town, which could reasonably
>> support a small restaurant economy. But I think Dining falls under the
>> Chancellor, whereas staff issues fall under the Provost. I think. Anyway=
,
>> just for fun, try tying a mandatory Student meal plan proposal to a
>> mandatory Staff meal plan proposal and watch the proponents struggle to
>> explain the difference between the goose and the gander. It'd be pretty
>> funny, and the proposal would die pretty quick...unless the admins pushi=
ng
>> this are as willing to condescend to their fellow staff members as they =
are
>> to students.
>> Actually, as a staff member myself, I can picture some of my colleagues
>> being more than willing to punish each other with something like that. H=
mmm.
>>
>> Non Sequitor,
>> ++Sean ('99, '05)
>>
>> P.S. I think the SCAT group is a great idea and one (very) long overdue.=
If
>> it shows that it can execute as intended by not descending into a group =
of
>> brown nosing, resume padding, administrative apologists within a few yea=
rs
>> (after its well-principled founding members graduate), then I agree that=
it
>> should look for the oomph of Presidential status.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jacob Faber" <faber@alum.mit.edu>
>> To: "Jessica H Lowell" <jessiehl@mit.edu>
>> Cc: <ua-scatr@mit.edu>; <mit-talk@mit.edu>; <reubano@alum.mit.edu>; "Piu=
s A.
>> Uzamere II" <pius@alum.mit.edu>
>> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Mit-talk] [UA-SCATR] New Card initiative
>>
>>
>> This is a longer email than I planned, but I'd like to think i bring
>> up some good points :)
>>
>> "What I know, having heard it directly from an involved administrator:
>>
>> This is intended to reduce confusion and complaining among parents who
>> don't understand why we don't have campus-wide meal plans and for some
>> reason can't get their heads around the idea of TechCash's declining
>> balance system."
>>
>> I am not surprised to hear that this is how the administration is
>> rationalizing this potential plan. In reality, this plan is just a
>> way to subsidize the ridiculous monopoly that is MIT campus dining, as
>> were the plans that "were not meal plans" implemented in Baker,
>> Simmons, and Next while I was at MIT. The intention was as obvious
>> then as it is now.
>>
>> The complaints from the vendors on campus about losing money and need
>> subsidy (in the form of the socialist [not that socialism is bad]
>> programs implemented in Baker, Simmons, Next, etc. or this plan, which
>> will have the long-term effect of forcing students to only eat on
>> campus) are completely ridiculous. I always thought that a good way
>> to make money in any business was to offer a good product at a
>> reasonable price. The vendors should stop whining and look to improve
>> their practice.
>>
>> Imagine if a restaurant in Central Square was losing money and
>> demanded a tax increase? This is the kind of absurd logic driving MIT
>> policy.
>>
>> When these changes started to happen around campus when I was at MIT,
>> a few students spoke up about how ridiculous this policy stance was.
>> Don't get stuck with mediocre, over-priced food, which is the
>> inevitable outcome of such unimaginative policy. Demand
>> accountability from the vendors and the MIT administration. Remember:
>> you're paying both of them to serve you, and you shouldn't have to
>> settle for this.
>>
>> Good luck with everything, especially keeping MIT honest,
>> Jacob Faber '04 '06
>> Former UA Something or Other
>>
>> PS =96 Is the Student Committee on Administrative Transparency and
>> Relations a real committee or just something clever to put in a sig?
>> If it's real, please reply privately, as I'm curious to hear about its
>> history/makeup/charter/etc.
>>
>>
>> On 7/3/06, Jessica H Lowell <jessiehl@mit.edu> wrote:
>>> What I know, having heard it directly from an involved administrator:
>>>
>>> This is intended to reduce confusion and complaining among parents who
>>> don't
>>> understand why we don't have campus-wide meal plans and for some reason
>>> can't
>>> get their heads around the idea of TechCash's declining balance system.
>>>
>>> What I think:
>>>
>>> I'd be surprised if this actually reduces confusion. I'd expect it to
>>> cause
>>> more, and I said so when I first heard about this. I think it's kind o=
f
>>> dumb
>>> and redundant, but if it creates a justification for not putting in
>>> mandatory
>>> meal plans when the relevant admins are being pressured to put them in,
>>> that's
>>> convenient.
>>>
>>> What I've heard:
>>>
>>> Students will be able to move money from their Dining Dollars account t=
o
>>> their
>>> regular TechCash account, meaning that parents don't actually have more
>>> control, even if they think they do.
>>>
>>> - Jessie
>>>
>>> Quoting Steven M Kelch <kelch@MIT.EDU>:
>>>
>>>> Hey everyone,
>>>>
>>>> It's come through the grapevine that there will be an addition to the
>>>> MIT
>>>> ID card. In addition to Tech Cash, there will be a new account created
>>>> that will be "food only". Where Tech Cash can be used at any location
>>>> that
>>>> currently accepts it (and, so I hear, possibly a few more being added)=
,
>>>> this new "food only" account will be accepted at places that sell
>>>> only food items. This means that the Coop, La Verdes, and
>>>> student groups that accept Tech Cash for ticket sales are excluded.
>>>>
>>>> The primary motivation for the creation of this account seems to be
>>>> appeasing parents who are either confused about the way Tech Cash work=
s
>>>> and want a simpler plan, or parents who want a little more control ove=
r
>>>> the way their child spends the money they put into the account. Many
>>>> students that I have talked to feel that the system is redundant. A fe=
w
>>>> have expressed concern also that the incoming freshmen will not know
>>>> that
>>>> the system is optional and that there is an alternative system already
>>>> in
>>>> place. On the other hand, the new account will help strengthen on-camp=
us
>>>> dining, nearly all of which has been steadily losing money.
>>>>
>>>> It is rumored that a press release from the Dining Office is expected.
>>>> The
>>>> system has already been set up, and is expected to go live near the
>>>> first
>>>> of August. An informative mailing to the freshmen class is also
>>>> expected,
>>>> though whether this is going to happen and what the information is goi=
ng
>>>> to be has yet to be confirmed.
>>>>
>>>> Let me clarify that this information is second hand, and I only want t=
o
>>>> begin a discussion. Additionally, THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A
>>>> MEAL
>>>> PLAN. The system is completely optional, and is intended as a
>>>> convenience.
>>>> Dean of Student Life Larry Benedict has been quoted on numerous
>>>> occasions
>>>> that there are no attempts to create meal plans currently in the works=
=2E
>>>>
>>>> I bring the issue up because it has met with resistance, and I would
>>>> like
>>>> a discussion so that concerns can be raised and addressed. What are
>>>> people's thoughts? Will you use the system? Even if not, do you think
>>>> that
>>>> others will? What benefits/problems do you see? What would you like th=
e
>>>> students and admins close to this project to know?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (SCATR)
>>>> Student Committee on Administrative Transparency and Relations
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ua-scatr mailing list
>>>> ua-scatr@mit.edu
>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/ua-scatr
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MIT-talk mailing list
>>> MIT-talk@mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/mit-talk
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jacob W. Faber
>> Phone: 857.928.2838
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MIT-talk mailing list
>> MIT-talk@mit.edu
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/mit-talk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MIT-talk mailing list
>> MIT-talk@mit.edu
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/mit-talk
>>
>
>
> --=20
> Jacob W. Faber
> Phone: 857.928.2838
>
> _______________________________________________
> ua-scatr mailing list
> ua-scatr@mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/ua-scatr
>
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