[146376] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] Email and IM are ideal candidates for mix
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Phillip Hallam-Baker)
Mon Aug 26 12:37:07 2013
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <tYc4wECFwuGSFAWD@highwayman.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 08:46:34 -0400
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Richard Clayton <richard@highwayman.com>
Cc: cryptography@metzdowd.com
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Richard Clayton <richard@highwayman.com>wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> In message <FDD34A58-6CE6-497A-A177-B940D36D050A@lrw.com>, Jerry Leichter
> <leichter@lrw.com> writes
>
> >On the flip side, mail systems like gMail or Yahoo mail are complex and
> >difficult to run *exactly because they are immense*.
>
> The mail systems part is really rather simple... and pretty much looks
> after itself. That's not where all the employees work.
>
> > But what are they getting
> >for that size? There are no economies of scale here - in fact, there are
> clear
> >*dis*economies.
>
> ... the economy of scale is in identifying and routing spam of various
> kinds. Some can be detected a priori -- the majority of the detection
> relies on feedback from users (the chances are that someone else got the
> bad mail before you did, so it can be arranged that you are not bothered)
>
> >Even without the recent uproar over email privacy, at some point, someone
> was
> >going to come up with a product along the following lines: Buy a cheap,
> >preconfigured box with an absurd amount of space (relative to the "huge"
> amounts
> >of space, like 10GB, the current services give you); then sign up for a
> service
> >that provides your MX record and on-line, encrypted backup space for a
> small
> >monthly fee. (Presumably free services to do the same would also appear,
> >perhaps from some of the dynamic DNS providers.)
>
> Just what the world needs, more free email sending provision! sigh
>
> >What's the value add of one of the giant providers?
>
> If you run your own emails system then you'll rapidly find out what
> 2013's spam / malware problem looks like.
>
> Just as success in crypto deployment isn't about algorithms or file
> formats, success in mail handling isn't about MX records and MTAs.
>
Which is why I think Ted Lemon's idea about using Facebook type friending
may be necessary.
I don't think we can rely on that for Key distribution. But I think it
needs to be a part of the mix.
I have a protocol compiler. Just give it an abstract schema and out pops a
server and client API library. Just need to add the code to implement the
semantics. It is up on Sourceforge, will update later this week.
--
Website: http://hallambaker.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Richard Clayton <span dir=3D"ltr">=
<<a href=3D"mailto:richard@highwayman.com" target=3D"_blank">richard@hig=
hwayman.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
In message <<a href=3D"mailto:FDD34A58-6CE6-497A-A177-B940D36D050A@lrw.c=
om">FDD34A58-6CE6-497A-A177-B940D36D050A@lrw.com</a>>, Jerry Leichter<br=
>
<<a href=3D"mailto:leichter@lrw.com">leichter@lrw.com</a>> writes<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
>On the flip side, mail systems like gMail or Yahoo mail are complex and=
<br>
>difficult to run *exactly because they are immense*.<br>
<br>
</div>The mail systems part is really rather simple... and pretty much look=
s<br>
after itself. That's not where all the employees work.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
> =A0But what are they getting<br>
>for that size? =A0There are no economies of scale here - in fact, there=
are clear<br>
>*dis*economies.<br>
<br>
</div>... the economy of scale is in identifying and routing spam of variou=
s<br>
kinds. Some can be detected a priori -- the majority of the detection<br>
relies on feedback from users (the chances are that someone else got the<br=
>
bad mail before you did, so it can be arranged that you are not bothered)<b=
r>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
>Even without the recent uproar over email privacy, at some point, someo=
ne was<br>
>going to come up with a product along the following lines: =A0Buy a che=
ap,<br>
>preconfigured box with an absurd amount of space (relative to the "=
;huge" amounts<br>
>of space, like 10GB, the current services give you); then sign up for a=
service<br>
>that provides your MX record and on-line, encrypted backup space for a =
small<br>
>monthly fee. =A0(Presumably free services to do the same would also app=
ear,<br>
>perhaps from some of the dynamic DNS providers.)<br>
<br>
</div>Just what the world needs, more free email sending provision! =A0sigh=
<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
>What's the value add of one of the giant providers?<br>
<br>
</div>If you run your own emails system then you'll rapidly find out wh=
at<br>
2013's spam / malware problem looks like.<br>
<br>
Just as success in crypto deployment isn't about algorithms or file<br>
formats, success in mail handling isn't about MX records and MTAs.<br><=
/blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>Which is why I think Ted Lemon's =
idea about using Facebook type friending may be necessary.</div><div><br>
</div><div>I don't think we can rely on that for Key distribution. But =
I think it needs to be a part of the mix.</div><div><br></div><div><br></di=
v><div>I have a protocol compiler. Just give it an abstract schema and out =
pops a server and client API library. Just need to add the code to implemen=
t the semantics. It is up on Sourceforge, will update later this week.</div=
>
<div><br></div><div><br></div>-- <br>Website: <a href=3D"http://hallambaker=
.com/">http://hallambaker.com/</a><br>
</div></div>
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