[149251] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] Angry Cryptographers...
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_l)
Tue Jan 28 19:38:13 2014
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <CAMm+Lwi-6Wvp_R3cLCwkCXGSPr=m_JFdJoc4iWrP=-njoubc1w@mail.gmail.com>
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?= <l@odewijk.nl>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 23:50:33 +0100
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
Cc: "cryptography@metzdowd.com" <cryptography@metzdowd.com>
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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2014-01-28 Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
> The sheer scope of the spying and the Abu Ghraib photographs call the
> officers loyalty into question. They didn't raise any questions when the
> previous President ordered the use of torture on prisoners of war. They
> didn't raise any questions about the reclassification of prisoners of war
> as 'illegal combatants' or torture as 'enhanced interrogation'. So now they
> are not due any benefit of the doubt when they try to explain their
> motivations or demonstrate their loyalty.
To be fair the very existence of state is torture. You're just less
tolerant about bad conditions for prisoners than they were. The definition
of a POW follows from the good ol' Geneva convention. If one doesn't wear a
uniform or something similar enough they are not soldiers and thus not POWs.
You can go ahead and think morals mean everything. In fact morals mean
nothing. People are to be made to die as to ensure lasting prosperity or
pleasure for those capable of instigating such atrocities. It's been that
way and it will be that way until I become present of the world. That's
probably another way to say "until hell freezes over".
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014=
-01-28 Phillip Hallam-Baker <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:hallam@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hallam@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">
The sheer scope of the spying and the Abu Ghraib photographs call the offic=
ers loyalty into question. They didn't raise any questions when the pre=
vious President ordered the use of torture on prisoners of war. They didn&#=
39;t raise any questions about the reclassification of prisoners of war as =
'illegal combatants' or torture as 'enhanced interrogation'=
. So now they are not due any benefit of the doubt when they try to explain=
their motivations or demonstrate their loyalty.</blockquote>
</div><br>To be fair the very existence of state is torture. You're jus=
t less tolerant about bad conditions for prisoners than they were. The defi=
nition of a POW follows from the good ol' Geneva convention. If one doe=
sn't wear a uniform or something similar enough they are not soldiers a=
nd thus not POWs.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">You can go =
ahead and think morals mean everything. In fact morals mean nothing. People=
are to be made to die as to ensure lasting prosperity or pleasure for thos=
e capable of instigating such atrocities. It's been that way and it wil=
l be that way until I become present of the world. That's probably anot=
her way to say "until hell freezes over".</div>
</div>
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