[1902] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
etymology of "sub rosa"
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Eric De Mund)
Wed Nov 26 18:28:54 1997
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:09:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric De Mund <ead@ixian.com>
To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>
Cc: <cryptography@c2.net>
Reply-to: Eric De Mund <ead@ixian.com>
X-Humans-Reply-To: Eric De Mund <ead@ixian.com>
James,
] We use the rose a symbol of privacy because some bunch of romans
] met privately under a roof decorated with a stylized rose, hence
] the phrase "sub rosa"
I don't believe this is correct. My understanding was that a rose
suspended over a dining table meant that what was being spoken of was
confidential.
>From <http://www.users.interport.net/~words1/back-k2.html>, there is
this:
Dear Evan: I've been trying to track down the origin of the phrase
"under the rose" (or "sub rosa" if you want to be upscale about it).
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anything in the books I
have available here. Can you help? -- Sue Solberg, via the Internet.
Oh, let's be upscale about it, by all means. More people will
recognize the form "sub rosa" (meaning "in secret") anyway. You
start talking about roses and pretty soon you'll have Martha Stewart
doing word origins on her show again, and there are some things up
with which we will not put.
I'm not surprised that you've had a problem tracking down the origin
of "sub rosa" because the roots of the phrase are at least partly
shrouded in obscurity and confusion. According to one of my
reference books ("From Achilles' Heel to Zeus's Shield," by Dale
Corey Dibbley), the whole story was pretty much invented by the
Romans. According to the myth, one fine afternoon a child god named
Harpocrates stumbled upon the goddess Venus while she was engaged in
one of her many illicit rendezvous. Venus's son Cupid, who happened
to be in the neighborhood as well, quick-wittedly saved his mother's
reputation by offering Harpocrates a beautiful rose in return for
his vow of silence. Harpocrates kept his mouth shut, and the rose
thereafter became the symbol of silence.
For a minor Roman myth, this one had legs, as they say in show biz.
It was still common in Medieval times to see a rose suspended over a
dining table in France and England to remind guests that
conversations at the table were not to be repeated elsewhere.
Eventually real roses were replaced by plaster ones, and roses were
still commonly found in the plaster work in many Victorian dining
rooms. Today, "sub rosa" (and, less often, "under the rose") is a
synonym for "secret," with the added connotation of "illicit."
Regards,
Eric De Mund
p.s. Web page reference courtesy of an Excite search of
`+"sub rosa" +etymology'.
--
Eric De Mund <ead@ixian.com> | PGP Key Fingerprint:
http://www.ixian.com/ead/ | 5349b223 af6c2081 eddd4c81 aac9d1a5
