[15490] in APO-L
Re: "Itallion Stallion"
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Karmic Debris)
Tue Nov 12 12:09:54 1996
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 05:10:30 -0500
Reply-To: Karmic Debris <mmccaffrey@DELTA.IS.TCU.EDU>
From: Karmic Debris <mmccaffrey@DELTA.IS.TCU.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list APO-L <APO-L@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <01IBJFLVXNC2006FKW@DELTA.IS.TCU.EDU>
On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, The Italian Stallion wrote:
> Here at Auburn, Omega Phi Alpha, national service sorority, takes in
> women who want to perform service to the community.
Very nice, I'm sure, but I'm also sure that its just not quite
the same as being in Alpha Phi Omega itself.
> Want to be in Delta
> chapter? You can be a "little sister",
I find that terminology to be somewhat, no, not somewhat, but
VERY diminutive.
> an important wing of our chapter
> that helps the pledges as well as the brothers in their endeavours, and
> perform their own service projects as well.
Sounds like you oly want them around so as to be "groupies" or
little helpers or something. Granted though, I am an outsider to your
chapter and don't know how things actually work at Delta.
> Little sisters, however, are
> NOT brothers. They are not registered nationally, they do not recieve a
> chapter number, and they cannot vote (but they CAN express their
> opinions).
THEY CAN EXPRESS THEIR OPINIONS!!!! What were you thinking?
They'll only get in the way, I mean, they're ONLY women: what opinions
could they have that are worth listening to?!?!
The above was, in case you misunderstood, very, very, very
sarcastic. Well, Delta, it is very encouraging to see that ya'll have
advanced so far as to extend the Freedom of Speech to include women, if
not suffrage itself. (again, slightly sarcastic)
> By the way, if you choose to insult the LS program, remember
> something: My mother was one, so you're dead meat if you go off!
> -Delta 1159
> Mark Librizzi
Oh, Yeah!! Well MY mom's a bookkeeper and my best friend is a
lawyer, so I don't wanna hear any Accountant or Lawyer jokes outa ya, or
I'll come over there and pound ya!
Oh, please, Stallone-wanna-be-boy, there are a few rules of
debate that either you will learn and apply, or you will simply go down
in a overload of email flames:
1) Learn to disagree without being disagreeable. I myself
sometimes border on the edge of this one, but I also always include
several caveats so people will realize that I don't mean to be insulting
to anyone personally, I just have strong feelings about the topic. You
must learn to argue rationally and respect everyone's right to an opinion.
2) Insulting or arguing against a particular program,
organizatoin, etc., is not the same as insulting a particular member,
past or present, of that organization. In other words: I THINK YOUR
LITTLE SISTER PROGRAM IS STUPID, DELTA SHOULD JUST GO CO-ED AND STOP
LIVING IN THE CHAUVINISTIC DARK AGES!!!!! Now, did that say anything
about your mother? not, nother at all. Did it insult any of your little
sisters? no. Did I insult you or your brothers? Well, yes, I did, and I
apologize for that, but it is difficult to argue against a decision (
in this case to remain all-male) without insulting those who made the
decision or those who defend it. Now, how is it that I insulted you? I
believe I called you chauvinistic.
Now I realize the above was very incensed, so let me restate it
in kinder words: I don't agree with you. I think saying, "You want a
service fraternity? Join OPA." is a crock. I think one of the main
tenets of Alpha Phi Omega is being all inclusive; I believe that we are a
fraternity, with Brotherhood, but that we are different from other
fraternities. We are different in that our brotherhood is focused around
service, and therefore, I believe it is wrong to say "You aren't good
enough to do service with us."
And that is what you are saying when you tell a women she can't
be your brother; go join Omega Phi Alpha -- that she isn't good enough.
Oh, yeah, I heard what yousaid: your "little" sisters do service with
you and "help" achieve your endeavours, but as you also said, they are
not brothers, and they are not allowed to vote.
So, they are good enough to join you on a service project -- why
aren't they good enough to be your brother FULLY. Read your ritual book,
doesn't it say that Service is supreme in one of the ceremonies?
So, women are good enough to join you for that which is most
supreme to our fraternity. Why aren't they good enough to join you
fully, as brothers?????
Why not? Answer me that.
So, you want to be selective? Fine go join SAE, or Fiji, or Kappa
Sig, or Sig Ep, any of the others. I don't think selectivity of
membership for things like sex, race, or even simply personality has any
place in APO.
What did I just say??? Yeah, I don't think chapters should vote
on pledges. At any point. Period.
My chapter, Gamma Kappa at TCU in Ft Worth, TX, does not vote to
extend "bids" nor to activate pledges. We have a set or requirements for
pledgeship. If you meet the requirements, you are activated. If you
don't, pledge board (Pledge trainer and Assts.) has the discretion to
activate you or not. If you not make requirements and Pledge Board
doesn't activate you, you may appeal to the Exec Board (all elected
officers). This has never happened. In fact, it is fairly rare for
anyone to be approved by pledge board who did make requiremnts. The
decision, in any case, is never made on personality or the like.
I believe the fraternity as a whole should be this way. I
believe voting to decide who may pledge is wrong. This is again along the
lines of who is to say "you aren't good enough to do service with us." I
believe there should definite, objective requirements, decided by each
chapter, for pledgeship. And I beleive that those who make those
requirements should be activated unconditionally.
I've been told that some chapters don't operate like this. i
don't like it.
just to re-cap: Mark, I did not mean to offend you, however, you
have offended me somewhat with the tone of some of your posts. Anything
harsh I've said was merely to bring your attention to that; I'm sure you
didn't enjoy those things any more than I did. Please try to be calm in
your discussion. I realize you care very much about these issues, as do I.
I think all-male chapters should go co-ed, preferably by their
own choice. I also think membership should be open to all, and not be
subject to individual, subjective voting.
oh, yeah, disclaimer: My opinions and my opinions only. Not
my chapters, not my Regional Director's, not anyone else's, just mine.
Mike McCaffrey
Gamma Kappa Chapter President, F'96.
Texas Christian University
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