[15553] in APO-L
Re: "Itallion Stallion" (fwd)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (The Italian Stallion)
Wed Nov 13 12:55:59 1996
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:31:46 -0600
Reply-To: The Italian Stallion <librimd@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
From: The Italian Stallion <librimd@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list APO-L <APO-L@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199611130350.VAA01252@ducserv.mail.auburn.edu>
> > No. They prefer where they are. Many of them have said this.
>
> You have said to them specifically, "Would you rather be full-fledged
> members of our band?" and they have said "Heck no!"?
Exactly.
> Hey, I don't mind being called a whop and a dego, nor do I mind blonde
> jokes, but some of my fellow blonde Italians do. My father will not
> tolerate anyone using the word dego in our household, even if it is directed
> toward me and he knows I don't mind. Why? Because he's entitled to his
> opinion, and he speaks up for what he thinks is right. I am my father's
> daughter.
Calling us WOP's (not whop, WOP stand for with out papers, a derogitory
statement about illegal Italian immigrants), and calling someone a
"little sister" is a world of difference. One is meant to hurt. The
other is not. Please try to understand, where there is no intention
and no hurt feelings from the recipient, there is no insult!
> But then again, they've never known any other way, have they?
Please, we're not talking about some backward, third world tribe here.
These girls are intelligent enough to know when they're being insulted.
> > (1) Because we are an AllMale chapter
> Circular reasoning. We're an all-male chapter because we won't allow women
> to be brothers. And we don't allow women to be brothers because we're an
> all male chapter.
Well, all my explanations on why we want to be AllMale have been
ignored. If you want the reasoning, refer to previous posts.
> > (2) Because they don't want to be brothers
> I wonder how many of them have experience being in a coed fraternity and
> seeing what it's like to be offered full membership.
They don't want to be brothers. They've said this to many female
brothers before. They prefer their station in the frat.
> What makes them special? Ouch. Any woman worth her salt would rather be a
> man's equal than his special little sissypoo.
Being who and what they are makes them special. The things that they do
for the brothers and pledges make them special. They aren't our "little
sissypoo"s (I suspect that if I called one of them that, I'd get
knocked upside the head with the nearest convienient object). They are
a value to our chapter. They were established to fill a basic niche
that the brothers felt needed filling. However, they would not fulfill
this niche were they to become brothers.
> So you say you value them, and that they're important, and that they do
> their own service projects, etc. etc. etc. So basically, they're fulfilling
> the role of brothers. How on earth do you manage to keep this precious
> male-bonding fraternal ambience in the chapter with them there? If they
> disturb it (which they obviously must), why have them there at all? If not,
> how on this earth can you justify (not rationalize- JUSTIFY) excluding them?
The greatest difference between the brothers and little sisters is that
the brothers have gone through the pledging and initiation. We share
common memories that the LS's will never have. We, as a brotherhood, do
many things without the LS's (they in turn do the same, of course). We
share a unique bond that the LS's do not have with us. Indeed, our
brothers share a bond unique in APhiO, a bond that has been forged
throughout 70 years of brotherhood in our chapter. This is a bond that
I believe can only be shared within an AllMale chapter, as I've seen
other AllMale chapters with the same thing, and only they can relate to
ours. Of course, all brothers of APhiO share the powerful bond of
brotherhood, but in AllMale chapters, it is a unique phenomenon.
> > YES! I can't think of a better way to put it.
>
> Oh wow, that is chilling. Absolutely chilling. Do you REALLY stand by that
> statement? I don't know that I want to call you my brother. I hope you
> never have a job where you supervise women and minorities. The potential
> consequences stagger me.
Yes. If you read above, my statement may make more sense to you. By the
way, I wouldn't ever promote a man before a woman based on gender.
> So basically, you're happy with your status quo because it serves you, and
> you're willing to do anything necessary to rationalize your existence. I see.
Yes. Is there something wrong with wanting to stay the way we are?
> No one? I doubt that. It may not be vocalized, but you can bet your
> testosterone that it's there.
You'd have to look long and hard.
> Again, "separate but equal" isn't exactly constitutional. Do the women drink
> out of different water fountains too, and sit on the back of the bus?
No, but do we share restrooms? No? Why?
> Discrimination is harmful and diminishes us all. Several brothers on APO-L
> have expressed extreme concern with chapters that discriminate against
> women, so I'd say you are doing harm.
If you look into this, its not discrimination. Its simply guys wanting
to hang with guys, not as much guys not wanting to hang with girls.
> Because you don't show it to the women at your school. What makes a female
> brother from a different school different from a female brother who
> transfers to your school? What makes a woman who wants to pledge my chapter
> different from a woman who wants to pledge your chapter? They're only
> "different" because you define them that way.
They're different anitomically, phychologically, and emotionally. Men
and women have many different needs. Our chapter has the tradition of
being AllMale, and providing that need within the men of our campus.
-Delta 1159
Mark Librizzi
