[1686] in Discussion of MIT-community interests
Re: [Mit-talk] Re: [Sponge-talk] dollar bill mural
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Ryan Williams)
Wed Dec 14 02:53:07 2005
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:51:48 -0800
From: Ryan Williams <breath@alum.mit.edu>
To: Andrew Lukmann <lukymann@mit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <439FB7F4.20504@mit.edu>
cc: Dmitry Kashlev <mkashlev@mit.edu>
cc: mit-talk@mit.edu
cc: Milo <milo@mit.edu>
cc: "C. Kiersten Pollard" <pollardk@mit.edu>
cc: Dheera Venkatraman <dheera@mit.edu>
cc: sponge-talk@mit.edu
Errors-To: mit-talk-bounces@mit.edu
On the one hand:
- Well in advance, there was a publication indicating that they were at
least thinking of doing something with that space.
- There was an info session with cookies
- They did some sort of survey of the student body
- The actual plans were made with student involvement in the form of:
* UA reps
* class of 05
- They hired a professional photographer to properly document the history
On the other hand:
- The survey methods are suspect
- The student body was never appraised of the final plans, instead was
left to believe that no decisions had yet been made
- The class of 05 is apparently a bunch of jerks who have no
appreciation for history.
On participation:
It has been my experience that oftentimes the student input undertaken
by the Institvte lacks actual decision-making qualities. Andrew's piece
here refers to 'the design goals of the space', which he believes were
satisfied by the glass-wall design. Student input did not determine the
design goals of the space.
Another example is the redesign of MIT's sports 'brand'. They solicited
student input in the form of a survey asking which of these two the logo
should be:
"1. stylized rendition of the Great Dome (looks like a circus tent in
orbit, or some suckass aerospace industry logo)
2. the word "MIT" with a beaver's head. it looks like an otter, or
ferret, or other small woodland aquatic mammal, but it's supposed to
be a beaver."
I quote Amittai for the descriptions. Neglected was the option that
most of us would have chosen:
3. the classic T which looks extremely hardcore and doesn't cost a
jillion dollars in image consultant costs
The important decision, which was to scrap the standard logo, had
already been made. The student input was window dressing. The dollar
bill decisions were no different.
Until this changes, MIT will not get any money from me.
-RYaN
Andrew Lukmann wrote:
> The Architect couldn't have been more than 35 and her assistant who did
> most of the presentation work looked like he was barely older than I am...
>
> Anyways, that's irrelevant, I just wanted to mention that there
> certainly was student input on the design of the space. The CAC
> basically did exactly what was asked of them by the undergraduate body
> when working to plan out a project that will affect us. They put
> together a committee of stakeholders including a number of undergrads
> nominated by the UA. In addition they put together a open and advertised
> info session on the project last December. Phil Walsh himself stood out
> in the Infinite with cookies trying to entice people to come in and look
> at the proposed plans. In addition the Tech reported on the project and
> it was open knowledge that the alternatives for the project included
> modification or removal of the existing mural. On top of that the
> Working Group on the project continued this year and had a meeting a
> couple of weeks ago which included undergraduate reps. I attended this
> meeting and when the issue of the mural came up I took a number of
> minutes clarifying to the committee that some members of the
> undergraduate community would be sensitive to the removal of the mural.
> I said that it would be best if we could implement the project while
> maintaining as much of the mural as possible. However in light of
> discussion of the structural elements in the wall itself and the design
> goals of the space, the balance of the group felt that the final design
> solution is appropriate. That said, I think this is going to be a great
> space and a welcome addition to a part of campus that doesn't have much
> student lounge or 'hang-out' space and any concerns about the
> preservation of the mural should be measured in light of the friendly,
> bright, brand new lounge space we will recieve. Remember that the CAC
> has been fighting for a year to get funding for this project in our
> interests. Would you rather the office be given to some non-student
> related administrative office? Anyways... Just saying, a lot of people
> don't have the facts of the situation and I applaud jhawk for his
> initative at trying to clarify the issue. I have been very busy with the
> UA, the Senate and my schoolwork the last few days otherwise I would
> have had even more time to detail things myself.
>
> That being said, if people have questions, feel free to e-mail me but I
> likely won't be able to get back to you with rapidity.
>
> -ATL
>
> Dheera Venkatraman wrote:
>
>>yeah ok, even better, i don't think anyone's gonna be sleeping in there
>>with a nice huge glass panel. leaving the dollar bill is especially a
>>good idea in this case.
>>
>>way to go, old architects, for trying to design "better" social places
>>again. notice how anything social with student input is a success and
>>anything that was designed to be social by some old people without
>>student input has rarely been a success.
>>
>>-dheera
>>
>>On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 19:03 -0500, Dmitry Kashlev wrote:
>>
>>
>>>the lounge will NOT be used for studying. On teh contrary it is designed
>>>as a place to sleep in, get some rest, and to socialize.
>>>
>>>~Dmitry
>>>
>>>C. Kiersten Pollard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>HOLA!
>>>>I like that mural too! I think that a new student lounge would be
>>>>cooler if that wall was left the way it is. Plus it's hard to study
>>>>with people passing by and looking at you:P
>>>>ADOIS!~Kiersten~
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Milo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hey Sponge-talk. I'm trying to get input on the dollar bill mural. I
>>>>>was suggested to send e-mail here. Please get to me if you have
>>>>>something to say!! Here's what I already said.. and please keep me
>>>>>cc'd on any discussion since I'm not on spongetalk. Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>_________________
>>>>>Have you seen that guy camped out near lobby 10 taking pics of the
>>>>>dollar bill lately? Well, I over heard him talking, and he's doing it
>>>>>because the mural is being taken down. This is more than likely part
>>>>>of that student lounge space they want to create there.
>>>>>
>>>>>Personally I would hate to see that mural go. It's part of MIT and
>>>>>Hacking History. Anyone know how long it's been there? The idea is to
>>>>>replace it with a glass wall so that you can be like a little hamster
>>>>>in a cage for people to look at when they walk by the lounge....
>>>>>
>>>>>IF you care please let me know, I want peoples opinions. Maybe I can
>>>>>talk to some admins and find out what the deal is with it, but I'm
>>>>>won't if I'm the only person thinking this way.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>>~milo
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Sponge-Talk@mit.edu - The reason Kevin might not graduate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---- For Archives & Subscription: Sponge-talk@mit.edu
>>>>>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sponge-talk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Sponge-Talk@mit.edu - The reason Kevin might not graduate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---- For Archives & Subscription: Sponge-talk@mit.edu
>>>>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sponge-talk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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