[146623] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] tamper-evident crypto? (was: BULLRUN)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Charles Jackson)
Thu Sep 5 22:22:18 2013
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <E1VHkgl-0001HJ-4I@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 22:05:02 -0400
From: Charles Jackson <clj@jacksons.net>
To: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
Cc: cryptography@metzdowd.com, jsd@av8n.com
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>wrote:
> >To say the same thing the other way, I was always amazed that the Nazis
> were
> >unable to figure out that their crypto was broken during WWII. There were
> >experiments they could have done, such as sending out a few U-boats under
> >strict radio silence and comparing their longevity to others.
>
> Cognitive dissonance. "We have been...", sorry "Ve haff been reassured zat
> our cipher is unbreakable, so it must be traitors, bad luck, technical
> issues,
> ...".
>
As I recall the history it was direction finding (HF-DF) that was causing
specific U-boats to be lost. Crypto was more global---resulting in
rerouting convoys, etc. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_direction_finding.
After late '42 or so, U-boat radio silence would have indicated that using
the radios was a problem---even during the time that the Naval Enigma was
not being broken.
--
Chuck
======================
Charles L. Jackson
301 656 8716 desk phone
888 469 0805 fax
301 775 1023 mobile
PO Box 221
Port Tobacco, MD 20677
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Peter Gutmann <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz" target=3D"_blank">pgut001@cs.auckland=
.ac.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div id=3D":gq" style=3D"overflow:hidden">>To say the s=
ame thing the other way, I was always amazed that the Nazis were<br>
>unable to figure out that their crypto was broken during WWII. =A0There=
were<br>
>experiments they could have done, such as sending out a few U-boats und=
er<br>
>strict radio silence and comparing their longevity to others.<br>
<br>
Cognitive dissonance. =A0"We have been...", sorry "Ve haff b=
een reassured zat<br>
our cipher is unbreakable, so it must be traitors, bad luck, technical issu=
es,<br>
...".<br></div></blockquote></div><br>As I recall the history it was d=
irection finding (HF-DF) that was causing specific U-boats to be lost. =A0C=
rypto was more global---resulting in rerouting convoys, etc. =A0See=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_direction_finding">https=
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_direction_finding</a>. =A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">After late =
'42 or so, U-boat radio silence would have indicated that using the rad=
ios was a problem---even during the time that the Naval Enigma was not bein=
g broken.<br>
<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><br>Chuck=A0<br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>Charles L. Jackson<b=
r><br>301 656 8716 =A0 =A0desk phone<br>888 469 0805 =A0 =A0fax<br>301 775 =
1023 =A0 =A0mobile=A0<br><br>PO Box 221<br>Port Tobacco, MD 20677
</div></div>
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