[148394] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] Fun with hardware RNGS: the Infinite Noise
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Phillip Hallam-Baker)
Sun Dec 8 22:37:36 2013
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <52A42A9A.3060605@echeque.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 22:23:45 -0500
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>
Cc: "cryptography@metzdowd.com" <cryptography@metzdowd.com>
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:15 AM, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 08, 2013 at 02:14:33PM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
>
>> Looks to me that if you perturb this circuit, you will get a
>>>
>>> different, but equally random set of bits, for, no matter what the
>>> perturbation, any noise in the system gets amplified to infinity,
>>>
>>> even if the enemy is injecting a signal that is cleverly designed to
>>> mess with it.
>>>
>>
> On 2013-12-08 16:43, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
>
>> That would be true of the mathematically ideal circuit. Yes, the
>> baker's transformation is ergodic. However, the physical circuit
>> has finite sensitivity.
>>
>
> No, a physical circuit does not have a finite sensitivity. It has a
> finite noise floor.
What about RF emissions made by the circuit?
This contraption seems like it would bleed its output into the RF spectrum.
--
Website: http://hallambaker.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:15 AM, James A. Donald <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jamesd@echeque.com" target=3D"_blank">jamesd@echeque.c=
om</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On Sun, Dec 08, 2013 at 02=
:14:33PM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Looks to me that if you perturb this circuit, you will get a<div class=3D"i=
m"><br>
different, but equally random set of bits, for, no matter what the<br></div=
>
perturbation, any noise in the system gets amplified to infinity,<div class=
=3D"im"><br>
even if the enemy is injecting a signal that is cleverly designed to<br>
mess with it.<br>
</div></blockquote></blockquote><div class=3D"im">
<br>
On 2013-12-08 16:43, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
That would be true of the mathematically ideal circuit. =A0Yes, the<br>
baker's transformation is ergodic. =A0However, the physical circuit<br>
has finite sensitivity.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
No, a physical circuit does not have a finite sensitivity. =A0It has a fini=
te noise floor.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>What about RF emissions mad=
e by the circuit?</div><div><br></div><div>This contraption seems like it w=
ould bleed its output into the RF spectrum.=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div></div>-- <br>Website: <a href=3D"http://hallambaker.com/">htt=
p://hallambaker.com/</a><br>
</div></div>
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