[148579] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] [IP] 'We cannot trust' Intel and Via's
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Jerry Leichter)
Sun Dec 22 16:14:36 2013
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
From: Jerry Leichter <leichter@lrw.com>
In-Reply-To: <52B6887C.80503@iang.org>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 10:57:13 -0500
To: ianG <iang@iang.org>
Cc: cryptography@metzdowd.com
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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On Dec 22, 2013, at 1:36 AM, ianG <iang@iang.org> wrote:
> Using RISC chips would be a substantial defence against the attack =
that has been outlined (leaving aside the obviously contentious debate =
as to whether the risk is serious).
The most widely published example of an attack against hardware was =
against the open-source SPARC chip design. No microcode, very simple =
layout - and a it only took a few extra gates to suborn it completely. =
The attack is somewhat different, and not have *field modifiable* =
microcode means the attack needs to be implanted early, but as far as =
vulnerability to hardware attacks in general, there's not much of a =
difference.
> What RISC CPUs are there these days in widespread deployment in =
off-the-shelf general purpose computers?
MIPS is still out there, though mainly in embedded systems. For that =
matter, even SPARC still sees some use. And as far as I know ARM =
implementations don't use microcode, but I could be wrong. And PowerPC, =
while not a traditional RISC, is also designed to be directly =
implementable in hardware.
In fact, other the x86 and the old IBM 360-descendent mainframes, all =
the surviving architectures seem to be fairly RISC-like.
>> OS's didn't, as far as I know, load PALcode. Rather, the PALcode =
needed to support a particular OS was loaded before the OS was =
loaded....
> If there was a way to reveal a signature of the PALcode, then it could =
be checked against known good sigs. Just musing...
Yes, the design of the Alpha would have made a "trusted boot" option =
easy to fit in. But then it hasn't been all *that* hard to fit into =
other environments either.
The Alpha died before interest in a trusted boot environment really =
developed. Sad - it was a nice design.
-- Jerry
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