[148872] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] TAO, NSA crypto backdoor program
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Phillip Hallam-Baker)
Thu Jan 2 00:13:52 2014
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <r422Ps-1075i-615E9CDC54C94C37A039622D81981347@Williams-MacBook-Pro.local>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:40:36 -0500
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Bill Frantz <frantz@pwpconsult.com>
Cc: "cryptography@metzdowd.com" <cryptography@metzdowd.com>
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Bill Frantz <frantz@pwpconsult.com> wrote:
> On 12/30/13 at 5:42 PM, fergdawgster@mykolab.com (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
>
> I am also impressed at the level of effort here. I did not think we would
>> be "here" -- figuratively speaking -- when everyone was calling Dorothy
>> Denning the "Wicked Witch of the East" for her support of key escrow back
>> in the early 90's on the cypherpunk list (I have not been on that list in
>> many years).
>>
>> In any event -- and please don't take this the wrong way -- it is almost
>> as
>> sickening to me as someone telling a rape victim to sit back and enjoy the
>> ride, or that they should admire their rapist for their technique and
>> efficacy.
>>
>> I won't make any ham-handed comparisons to GOP candidates in 2011. :-)
>>
>> Seriously, the breadth & depth of how the NSA and the U.S. Intelligence
>> Community has damaged trust in the post-9/11 Internet world is sick &
>> twisted in the most grotesque way imaginable.
>>
>> It is not to be respected or admired in any way whatsoever. They have
>> undermined everything we have been trying to do on the Internet in the
>> name
>> of safety and security for 20+ years.
>>
>
> One thing to remembrer in this mess: NSA isn't the only capable National
> Scale Adversary. While I might believe that NSA and GCHQ could, in the
> future, again be restrained by the rule of law, I don't believe we can use
> law to control the Russians and Chinese, to name just two. We have a
> wonderful worked example of the kind of threat we need to defend against.
> If we manage to rein in our eavesdropping agencies by use of law, we still
> have ones that aren't ours to worry about.
>
There is an important difference: I don't have the slightest doubt as to
the trustworthiness of GCHQ when it comes to the defense of democracy in
the UK. I certainly cannot say that of the US military or the NSA.
The political situation in the US does worry me for several reasons. First
the NSA and CIA were in the business of toppling inconvenient governments
for over thirty years. Even Eisenhower wondered about the possibility that
it might become a habit that they would eventually practice on their own
government.
Then there is the fact that after Louis Freeh lost the crypto wars, he
conspired with the Republican party in Congress to entrap the President and
enable his impeachment. That was in my view an attempt at a constitutional
coup. That failed attempt was followed by a successful one when the
Republican party partisans on the Supreme court conspired to prevent the
counting of the votes in the 2000 Presidential elections.
The gulag in Guantanamo and the fact that none of the people responsible
for ordering the use of torture in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib have been
prosecuted is a demonstration that there is no accountability in the US
political system.
And finally here is a political culture in which it is considered
acceptable for one party to peddle myths about the elected President's
birth certificate being somehow defective. It is obvious what the real
purpose of these claims is, in the UK we would call it mouthing treason.
So no, I don't think the issues are equivalent.
--
Website: http://hallambaker.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Bill Frantz <span dir=3D"ltr"><<=
a href=3D"mailto:frantz@pwpconsult.com" target=3D"_blank">frantz@pwpconsult=
.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On 12/30/13 at 5:42 PM, <a=
href=3D"mailto:fergdawgster@mykolab.com" target=3D"_blank">fergdawgster@my=
kolab.com</a> (Paul Ferguson) wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am also impressed at the level of effort here. I did not think we would<b=
r>
be "here" -- figuratively speaking -- when everyone was calling D=
orothy<br>
Denning the "Wicked Witch of the East" for her support of key esc=
row back<br>
in the early 90's on the cypherpunk list (I have not been on that list =
in<br>
many years).<br>
<br>
In any event -- and please don't take this the wrong way -- it is almos=
t as<br>
sickening to me as someone telling a rape victim to sit back and enjoy the<=
br>
ride, or that they should admire their rapist for their technique and<br>
efficacy.<br>
<br>
I won't make any ham-handed comparisons to GOP candidates in 2011. :-)<=
br>
<br>
Seriously, the breadth & depth of how the NSA and the U.S. Intelligence=
<br>
Community has damaged trust in the post-9/11 Internet world is sick &<b=
r>
twisted in the most grotesque way imaginable.<br>
<br>
It is not to be respected or admired in any way whatsoever. They have<br>
undermined everything we have been trying to do on the Internet in the name=
<br>
of safety and security for 20+ years.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
One thing to remembrer in this mess: NSA isn't the only capable Nationa=
l Scale Adversary. While I might believe that NSA and GCHQ could, in the fu=
ture, again be restrained by the rule of law, I don't believe we can us=
e law to control the Russians and Chinese, to name just two. We have a wond=
erful worked example of the kind of threat we need to defend against. If we=
manage to rein in our eavesdropping agencies by use of law, we still have =
ones that aren't ours to worry about.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>There is an important difference: I don=
9;t have the slightest doubt as to the trustworthiness of GCHQ when it come=
s to the defense of democracy in the UK. I certainly cannot say that of the=
US military or the NSA.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The political situation in the US does worry me for sev=
eral reasons. First the NSA and CIA were in the business of toppling inconv=
enient governments for over thirty years. Even Eisenhower wondered about th=
e possibility that it might become a habit that they would eventually pract=
ice on their own government.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Then there is the fact that after Louis Freeh lost the =
crypto wars, he conspired with the Republican party in Congress to entrap t=
he President and enable his impeachment. That was in my view an attempt at =
a constitutional coup. That failed attempt was followed by a successful one=
when the Republican party partisans on the Supreme court conspired to prev=
ent the counting of the votes in the 2000 Presidential elections.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The gulag in Guantanamo and the fact that none of the p=
eople responsible for ordering the use of torture in Guantanamo or Abu Ghra=
ib have been prosecuted is a demonstration that there is no accountability =
in the US political system.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>And finally here is a political culture in which it is =
considered acceptable for one party to peddle myths about the elected Presi=
dent's birth certificate being somehow defective. It is obvious what th=
e real purpose of these claims is, in the UK we would call it mouthing trea=
son.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>So no, I don't think the issues are =
equivalent.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>-- <br>=
Website: <a href=3D"http://hallambaker.com/">http://hallambaker.com/</a><br=
>
</div></div>
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