[148877] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: [Cryptography] TAO, NSA crypto backdoor program
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Phillip Hallam-Baker)
Thu Jan 2 11:43:19 2014
X-Original-To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2r+rELRtSpsqJFk8DfATAiacuoLfG8LYTwRNWUDhHBHetg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:16:26 -0500
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lodewijk_andr=E9_de_la_porte?= <l@odewijk.nl>
Cc: Raphael Jacquot <sxpert@sxpert.org>,
"cryptography@metzdowd.com" <cryptography@metzdowd.com>
Errors-To: cryptography-bounces+crypto.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@metzdowd.com
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On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andr=E9 de la porte <l@odewijk.nl>=
wrote:
> 2013/12/31 Raphael Jacquot <sxpert@sxpert.org>
>
>> ANT is a division of TAO, customers are other NSA people.
>>
>
> Yeah, I guess so. The question is whether or not it's naive to think it's
> just the NSA, it should be the CIA too sometimes. Perhaps even a company =
on
> a rare occasion.
>
> "DNT's BANANAGLEE and CES's ZESTYLEAK" - there seem to be at least two
>> companies, DNT and CES, with which the NSA works intimately.
>>
>> DNT and CES are probably other NSA divisions, customers of ANT=92s produ=
cts
>>
>
> On wikipedia it says:
> CES Cryptanalysis and Exploitation Services (Also known as S31)
>
> DNT is not mentioned however. It's probably something similarly obvious
> and uninteresting, or it would've been blacked out. Or they missed it?
> Maybe it's a division elsewhere in the DoD?
>
Looking through the 'mail order catalogue', are we sure that all these
capabilities are actual capabilities rather than projects attempting to
create them?
They have no limits in their ambitions to spend public money. Whether the
results perform as advertised is another matter. Wouldn't the war on terror
be over by now?
I suspect it works about as well as that start wars 'defense' system that
Reagan proposed. Decades later they still haven't had a single test that
wasn't faked. They certainly could not prevent an attack with Chevalene
type warheads which the UK withdrew from service before the project started=
.
--=20
Website: http://hallambaker.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andr=E9 de la porte <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:l@odewijk.nl" target=3D"_blank">l@odewijk=
.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">2013/12/31 Raphael Jacquot <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sxpert@sxpert.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
xpert@sxpert.org</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div>ANT is a division of TAO, customers are other NSA people.</div></block=
quote><div><br></div></div><div>Yeah, I guess so. The question is whether o=
r not it's naive to think it's just the NSA, it should be the CIA t=
oo sometimes. Perhaps even a company on a rare occasion.</div>
<div class=3D"im">
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>"DNT's BANANAGLEE and CES's ZESTYLEAK" - there seem =
to be at least two companies, DNT and CES, with which the NSA works intimat=
ely.<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=A0</span></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>DNT and CES are proba=
bly other NSA divisions, customers of ANT=92s products</div>
</blockquote></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>On wikipedia =
it says:</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">CES=A0<span style=3D"line-height:1=
9.190340042114258px;font-size:12.727272033691406px;font-family:sans-serif">=
=A0Cryptanalysis and Exploitation Services (Also known as S31)</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><span style=3D"line-height:19.190340042114258px;=
font-size:12.727272033691406px;font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><span style=3D"line-height:19.190340042114258px;fon=
t-size:12.727272033691406px;font-family:sans-serif">DNT is not mentioned ho=
wever. It's probably something similarly obvious and uninteresting, or =
it would've been blacked out. Or they missed it? Maybe it's a divis=
ion elsewhere in the DoD?</span></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Looking through the 'mail order =
catalogue', are we sure that all these capabilities are actual capabili=
ties rather than projects attempting to create them?</div><div>=A0</div><di=
v>
They have no limits in their ambitions to spend public money. Whether the r=
esults perform as advertised is another matter. Wouldn't the war on ter=
ror be over by now?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I suspect it wo=
rks about as well as that start wars 'defense' system that Reagan p=
roposed. Decades later they still haven't had a single test that wasn&#=
39;t faked. They certainly could not prevent an attack with Chevalene type =
warheads which the UK withdrew from service before the project started.</di=
v>
<div><br></div></div>-- <br>Website: <a href=3D"http://hallambaker.com/">ht=
tp://hallambaker.com/</a><br>
</div></div>
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