[1904] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: What is the story behind the rose symbol?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Sandy Sandfort)
Fri Nov 28 15:49:25 1997
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:32:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com>
To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>
Cc: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>, cryptography@c2.net
In-Reply-To: <199711261954.LAA23902@proxy3.ba.best.com>
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SANDY SANDFORT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Friends,
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, James A. Donald wrote:
> We use the rose a symbol of privacy because some bunch of romans
> met privately under a roof decorated with a stylized rose, hence
> the phrase "sub rosa"
>
> What is the story, why is this meeting place famous, and does
> anyone know what the original decoration looked like?
>
> (I want to include a little blurb in my product explaining the
> symbols.)
When I first suggested the rose as a Cypherpunk symbol (yup it
was I), I did so because of the historic connotation of the rose
with confidentiality. Historically--especially during the middle
ages--when a conversation was to be held in confidence, a rose
was suspended above the parties. Sometimes just a picture of a
rose was painted above a conference table. Here's how one source
explains it:
"Under the rose (sub rosa). In strict confidence. Cupid gave
Harpocrates (the god of silence) a rose, to bribe him not to
betray the amours of Venus. Hence the flower became the emblem of
silence. It was for this reason sculptured on the ceilings of
banquet-rooms, to remind the guests that what was spoken sub vino
was not to be uttered sub divo. In 1526 it was placed over
confessionals. The banquet-room ceiling at Haddon Hall is
decorated with roses. (French, parler sous la rose.)"
DICTIONARY OF PHRASE AND FABLE BY E. COBHAM BREWER (31KB, indexed
Oct 19, 1997)
So there you have, "the rest of the story."
S a n d y
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