[1908] in cryptography@c2.net mail archive
Re: What is the story behind the rose symbol?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Black Unicorn)
Fri Nov 28 17:36:46 1997
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:56:41 -0600
To: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com>, "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>
From: Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li>
Cc: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>, cryptography@c2.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.971126142304.15376B-100000@crl.crl.com>
At 02:32 PM 11/26/97 -0800, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> SANDY SANDFORT
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>Friends,
>
>On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, James A. Donald wrote:
>
>> We use the rose a symbol of privacy because some bunch of romans
>> met privately under a roof decorated with a stylized rose, hence
>> the phrase "sub rosa"
>>
>> What is the story, why is this meeting place famous, and does
>> anyone know what the original decoration looked like?
>>
>> (I want to include a little blurb in my product explaining the
>> symbols.)
>
>When I first suggested the rose as a Cypherpunk symbol (yup it
>was I), I did so because of the historic connotation of the rose
>with confidentiality. Historically--especially during the middle
>ages--when a conversation was to be held in confidence, a rose
>was suspended above the parties. Sometimes just a picture of a
>rose was painted above a conference table. Here's how one source
>explains it:
>
>"Under the rose (sub rosa). In strict confidence. Cupid gave
>Harpocrates (the god of silence) a rose, to bribe him not to
>betray the amours of Venus. Hence the flower became the emblem of
>silence. It was for this reason sculptured on the ceilings of
>banquet-rooms, to remind the guests that what was spoken sub vino
>was not to be uttered sub divo. In 1526 it was placed over
>confessionals. The banquet-room ceiling at Haddon Hall is
>decorated with roses. (French, parler sous la rose.)"
>
>DICTIONARY OF PHRASE AND FABLE BY E. COBHAM BREWER (31KB, indexed
>Oct 19, 1997)
>
>
>So there you have, "the rest of the story."
It really does go father back than that, and actually seems to originate
with the Roman Senate ceiling.
See: "Latin for all Occasions," and "The Unabridged Encylopedia of English
Etmology."
I have other sources which I can dig up if this thread continues.
